Monday, September 17, 2007

Note From The Editor

The 7 deadly sins:

  • Lust? Check.
  • Gluttony? Check.
  • Greed? Check.
  • Sloth? Check.
  • Wrath? Check.
  • Envy? Check.
  • Pride? Check.
What can I say? I'm a sinner.

Or at least I would be if I believed in God.

I think it would be fair to say that I have committed every single one of these sins and then some at one time or another (possibly 2 already this morning) and might even have made up a few more to add to the list, but what does this say about me? Are these sins really relevant in the modern world? Are they still considered deadly sins? Does the fact that I have committed them make me a bad person destined for the gates of hell?

Personally, I believe not (especially the gates of hell thing being an atheist), I think we all have a little anger, envy and pride in us. I would hope so at least, these things are what make us human. Would we rather be perfect, flawless specimens of humanity? Wouldn't the smugness and do-goodness of it all drive you insane? Make you want to drive sharp, pointy implements into the eyes of the next person you witnessed being oh so good? I think it probably would me.

What about you, are you a sinner? Do you find yourself committing one or more of these on a regular basis?


Mama Zen said...

This is a tough one!

American Scot said...

Lust? Without it, procreation of the species is impossible!
Gluttony? Who hasn't ate that extra slice of pie?
Greed? Sure, but I equally am capable of generosity.
Sloth? What's wrong with resting once in a while?
Wrath? Perhaps I could do without some of this, but then again, being passive never got me anywhere either...
Envy? Motivation to get something done!
Pride? Why shouldn't one be proud of one's accomplishments?

Carla said...

Yes, I am a sinner. I sin everyday. I also try to obey The Ten Commandments. I am also forgiven by God through His son, Jesus.
Farmers Wife-are you sure you want to go here?? :)
I would love to hear more of your belief system.

Anonymous said...

I don't think the question is do we do it, as much as is it is do we allow any one or more of these sins to take over our lives to the detriment of ourselves and those around us? If the answer to the latter is yes, you're going to hell. In other words, I think I'm going to hell.

The Farmers Wife said...

Mama Z: you covered it well in your post.
American Scott: Very good points well made :)
Carla: I don't have a belief system. I am an atheist. The ten commandments? A nice set of rules to try and get the masses to obey so we don't have out and out anarchy.
Allrileyedup: Hey, it's gonna be warm, right?

Carla said...

I guess what I am most interested in is how you arrived at your belief system of atheism? How has your life experience led you to it?
Have you ever read The Bible? Atheism is a belief system. You wrote what you do and do not believe. You do not believe in God. You do not believe there is a hell. You have judged God, The Ten Commandments, sin and hell through the lens of atheism and deemed them not for you. They do not exist in your mind.
Just because you choose not to believe doesn't mean they do not exist. What if at the end of your life you find out that all of us fools were right?

Mom on Coffee said...

WOW! You are a BRAVE woman!

Personally, I am a Christian. But, I certainly don't try to tell other how they should believe, because thats none of my business. Though, I do take great offense to some organized religeons.

I do find it amusing and yet very strange that these sins are called "deadly". Shouldn't that mean that once commited the offended should be struck dead where they stand?


Nesting Momma said...

I am going to be brave because you know I love ya' (wink) yes I am a big sinner but we all are and all will be forever. Sin does not make you a "bad" person. It just is. Jesus died for it, because he knew we would never not do it. Sin will not send you to hell, thats unbelief. No I don't judge you for your beliefs but hey you asked the question probably wanting comments. I hate the fire and brimstone talks but you asked. I would much rather talk to you about the ice on the leaves and the beautiful skies in Finland...but I'll talk about anything when asked.

The Farmers Wife said...

Carla: I shall start by saying I am not preaching either only trying to explain things and I don't care what religion, race or creed anybody else is, it doesn't change my opinions of them one jot.

Yes I have read the bible and attended a Christian church school for several years. Many members of my family are church going Christians and one of our oldest and closest family friends is a Cannon. That being said Atheism, much like being gay or a believer in which ever religion, isn't something you choose, it's just something you know.

I don't consider it a belief system because to me a belief system is something one must struggle and stretch reality a little to believe and one must over come moments of doubt and insecurity within that belief. Atheism is just the plain, bottom line fact that there is no God, it doesn't require you to believe it, it's just the truth. I don't know if this makes much sense to you, I think it is a hard thing to explain to people that do believe in a God as they can not help but try to compare it to their own thoughts on God and therefore turn it into a belief system of it's own.

The answer to your last question is also perhaps difficult to understand because unlike many believers in religion we atheists don't have those moments of doubt, those moments of what if. We just know, plain and simple.

If there really is a God and he created us and put us on this earth then he must have made us all with belief inside us and those that don't believe do so because they choose not to - which, when you think about it, means that they do really believe but they are just being bloody minded! I never believed. I remember as a small child asking my mum why people believed in God and receiving a clip round the ear for it but to me he was like Santa or the tooth fairy, he was somebody that people pretended to believe in but really everybody knew he wasn't real.

So, if I suspend all realms of reality and say that when I die I find out I was wrong. Then who has really failed? Me? Or this all powerful creator of everything that has failed to make me with any belief inside?

Oh, also I don't think anybody is a fool for believing. I understand and respect peoples need to believe in a God or higher being.

MoC: Oh dear, I hope we aren't going to end up being struck down dead for them. I have got so much I need to do today!

Nesting Mama: Unbelief? I don't think I've heard of unbelief before, can you explain? It is turning into an interesting discussion though isn't it. and I'm all for interesting discussions. although, having said that, you should have seen the sky out here this morning! I shall put some new pictures up on Cre8buzz soon.

Misssy M said...

I think one's religion is usually a product of geography and family. Religious doctrines fall down on these two principles. Those with a need for a belief system based on a deity will be a Christian/Jew if they live in the West, but if they had been born in India they would be Hindu, if they had been born in Egypt they would be Muslim.

I tend to find that at least Atheists have thought about their belief that there is no God, whereas a great deal of those who belong to a religion are born into it and have never really questioned it at all.

There are obviously exceptions, and I don't mean to diss religion out of hand, as it has been the cornerstone of our system of morality. But atheists demand respect too.

I find challenges to turn them to religion irritating and patronising. They don't believe in God. Get over it.

I personally have a lot of time for the Buddhists- they believe in the symbiotic relationship of the earth and its inhabitants. Deity free religion. How refreshing.

American Scot said...

Message to Xtians: ATHEISM IS NOT A BELIEF! It is lack of belief.

Your semantic arguments are pointless. We do not believe, if you choose to believe, fine, but don't try to convince of something most of us have already studied and concluded as myth. Text such as the Bible, Torah, Koran etc. are manmade. See this link for the inconsistencies of them.

American Scot said...

Sorry, Hyperlink didn't work:

Nesting Momma said...

Hey there Farmers Wife- Unbelief defined from a Christ follower's view of an un-believer. A rejection of the message of Christianity.

As a Christ follower- we will always struggle with a sense of unbelief even as a Christian. There is a passage in the Bible that says, "I believe, help my un belief." meaning not the rejection of Jesus himself as God but all of the other "un belief" that can come along with being human.

farmers Wife asked the question, I am answereing. not trying to talk anyone "into" anything.

REGARDING RELIGION AS A GENERATIONL IDEA: I actually agree that a lot of Christians,(church goers) are Christians and believe totally becasue their parents believed. I walked away from Christinaity, did research on all other relegions and the idea of no God...It brought me back to Christ.
Not as a need or cruch. My life is actually more challenging as a Christ follower.
FW- off to see your new pictures!!

Nesting Momma said...

sorry for the miss spelled words. In a I need an editor!

Mama Zen said...

Maybe it's because I'm looking at the debate from a Christian perspective, but I have a hard time with the concept that atheism is not a belief system. Even as an atheist, wouldn't one have to have some sort of framework or philosophy about behaviour, how the world works, your place in it, whatever? Am I just using a broader definition of "belief system?"

Carla said...

Awesome discussion, people!
Farmer's Wife-I thank you very much for the honest comment. I appreciate it very much.
Misssy M-How do you explain that the fastest growing evangelical Christian nation is China? They are turning to Christ by the thousands everyday. There is more than geography going on. John Piper's blog entry of Sept. 5th

American Scot said...

Momma Zen: Perhaps there is belief in humanity's ability to rise above petty nonsense such as the "Seven Deadly Sins via the tools of science and reason. But beyond that I wouldn't consider atheism a belief system.
Besides, with science you have two options when it comes to the natural world and science, either a theory stands up to scrutiny or it doesn't. When I read that e=mc2 I can do the calculation to confirm it. However, if someone tells me that there is an after life, and that if I don't follow their rules or their sky daddy, I'll go to the bad place. I have no way of proving or disproving this. It's all based on superstition and "belief," sorry but that just isn't good enough.

Misssy M said...

China also has a huge new childhood obesity problem and massively increased levels of pollution. Westernisation has brought more than salvation...

nor said...

I am a pastor of a UCC church and I loved your blog! In reality it is not what you believe, or that you any organized religion or faith system, what it comes down to is how you live your life. Am I a sinner - I hate that word because it has been used for centuries to control folks, but what I am not is perfect, and honestly I don't want to be...if we were all perfect we wouldn't have our mixed up, wonderful, pain-filled yet also joyful lives. we are not perfect but hopefully most of us are in the process of trying to be good people, make a positive impact on the world around us and the people we meet in our lives.

Mama Zen said...

American Scot - That's kind of what I was wondering; would you consider yourself to have a "belief system" (for lack of a better phrase) based on science and reason? That makes sense to me. It's the idea of having a complete absence of a "belief system" that I struggle to grasp. Like I said, I may be using a broader definition of belief system than what the discussion started with.

Carla said...

One more thing, I promise. Let me get this straight...
So far what I believe in has been called a myth, petty and superstition. Wow.

Jo Beaufoix said...

I think we're all entitled to our opinions and that as long as we're trying to be good people then who cares what your beliefs are?

I was brought up RC and have always believed, though at times I've struggled and am in the middle of that now in some ways.

But, I am married to an atheist and that is fine. I can see how atheism isn't a belief system. With Mr B it isn't any kind of system, he just does not believe in God, end of.

My dad who is a really strict catholic has often asked Mr B where he gets his belief system and morals from which amazes me, as if only people who have religion have the propensity to be 'good'.

I just think we're all people and we should respect difference whether or not we understand it.

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